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- Combat Gaps: Percentages
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| Combat Gaps: Percentages | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 18 2014, 05:06 AM (1,812 Views) | |
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Apr 19 2014, 01:16 AM Post #16 |
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Thank you very much for sharing all of your kind answers. 
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 19 2014, 02:11 AM Post #17 |
 
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Havoc I understand but that's one minor outlier out of so many other instances that support power gaps. I want to point out though that not every fight with, for example, a 1.25x difference, is going to have the exact same outcome. Yes the stronger fighter win that's for sure. But it won't always be a one shot like vegeta vs dodoria. They could struggle a little more |
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Apr 19 2014, 02:17 AM Post #18 |
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Popcorn
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i could find more if i wanted to but i can be bothered u have some instances where gaps matter but u can find many that it doesn't |
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| EMIYA | Apr 19 2014, 03:29 AM Post #19 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
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Without outside forces playing affect (sneak attacks, amplifications, etc.) a 1.2-1.3x gap has always been shown to be significantly in favor of the opponent with the higher PL. KK3 Goku vs Vegeta, Dodoria vs Vegeta, Cui Vs Vegeta, all of these were around the 1.2-1.3x difference and they all were in heavily in favor of another opponent. Vegeta might have survived his a*** beating but he certainly didn't put up no fight at the time either. He was completely outclassed. There literally isn't a single time in the canon manga where we've got a stated or at least heavily implied to be at such a difference as mentioned above that they actually could hold their own and do significant damage without utilizing some sort force like amplification to even the odds. Utilizing their own power by itself did absolute nothing because they literally can't. This is the same for people who are close to each in PLs. There has never been a single time in the history of the canon manga where two opponents had powers near each other and were described as equals where one ended up curbstomping the other without some outside force playing effect. Such as Vegeta catching Zarbon off guard in their second fight (and even then it was heavily implied he was already stronger. I don't know what some of you are thinking. Someone who is 1.2x weaker or so may end up winning his fight, but he's certainly not going to win it using the power he has alone. We're shown multiple times on specific circumstances that this just isn't the case. They need something to change the odds for them. Krillin dodging Nappa's blast isn't a sign that gaps aren't important. Obviously if Nappa and Krillin fought, the latter would get his face torn off. When Krillin goes out against Nappa and starts doing significant damage to him and causing trouble without having to result to other forces like amplification and sneak attacks and what not and we're shown that the gap there was a 1.2x. Then that's when gaps will stop being important. Gaps may not decide who wins the fight but they sure as heck give a good idea who's going to be the punching bag at the time. Edited by EMIYA, Apr 19 2014, 03:32 AM.
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Apr 19 2014, 03:57 AM Post #20 |
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Popcorn
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i guess if ur several times weaker and u can dodge ur opp attacks means nothing at all whats nappa like 4x stronger common, thats absurd gaps hardly matter huh, kiddy was at least 4x vegeta and look what happened there same deal here, not only is nappa getting beat up a bit,his attacks get dodged |
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| EMIYA | Apr 19 2014, 04:08 AM Post #21 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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When your getting your a*** beat...yeah and Krillin was hardly putting up a fight. btw when you say kiddy vs Vegeta, I'm assuming you mean Kid Boo vs Vegeta. Now even ignoring the point of Kid Boo going easy on Vegeta when compared to Goku and what not. In the end, Kid Boo still beat the living hell out of Vegeta and had a very significant advantage over the latter |
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| Vertical | Apr 19 2014, 04:21 AM Post #22 |
 
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You could always write off Krillin's dodging as Nappa's own scheming... the first attack being a set-up for the second attack... which was on it's way until Piccolo intervened. As for why he'd create such an elaborate plan... avoiding planetary damage as it suits him? Feeding his sadistic streak? (he seemed pretty "smiley" for someone who was just exploding with rage a second earlier) Edited by Vertical, Apr 19 2014, 04:22 AM.
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| + Havoc_Wreaker | Apr 19 2014, 04:49 AM Post #23 |
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Popcorn
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point being 30% equal one shot right? if that were the case, all the so call ''30'%'' (more or less gap) people would have been one shotted but thats not the case just like you said kiddy beat the s*** out of vegeta- yes he was toying but its a mirror for nappas fight nappa beat the s*** out of krillen but no one shotting i agree gaps can determine who has a higher chance of winning but if u have a 30% or x3 gap there is a big difference |
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| EMIYA | Apr 19 2014, 03:22 PM Post #24 |
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"I am the bone of my sword."
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It doesn't mean they have to one shot, it just means that they're more capable of one shotting. The basic point is that, once a certain gap is reached 1.2-1.3x (honestly a bit lower than that this is our finest example I believe) the difference between the characters becomes more obvious. Vegeta might survive his fight with Kid Boo but he's not holding the fight. He's losing badly. Krillin may dodge one attack from Nappa but in the end, he's still losing noticeably. Nail might not get absolute roflpawned and his head exploded by Freeza the moment the latter touches him, but the significant gap is still there. In short, one a certain gap is reached in the manga, the other side has lost. They may survive through sheer plot and determination, but they can't actually fight back and do damage with their power alone. It was something that AT actually appeared to be very consistent on surprisingly. KK3 Goku vs Vegeta was our first idea of how a 1.3x gap was like. More or less and Vegeta got his hind end handed to him. He survived, but its clear he was on the losing end of that match. We get another 1.3x gap between Vegeta and Cui. The same outcome occurs and that made sense. Against Dodoria, the gap is a bit smaller. Dodoria we would believe>Cu. In this case Vegeta easily beats him, but there's an effort on his part. For example when he's holding Dodoria, Vegeta's putting up a sweat with veins. It was consistent in what we saw. The gap between Vegeta and Dodoria was smaller than it was between him and Cui and so it made sense that Vegeta might have to put in a bit more effort on his part. |
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| + Kaboom | Apr 19 2014, 03:55 PM Post #25 |
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The main issue I have with analysis of power gaps is that fans tend to take it too far, and use them to devise their own "rules" about fights, which they think they can then use to "debunk" official power levels. "Oh, this character managed to land a blow on the other one, which means he MUST be at a 1.X advantage at most, which means this official number MUST be bullsh*t." A mindset which is clearly at best misguided, and at worst arrogant baloney. Yeah, even if the stronger person wins 99% of the time, there's no hard rules for how a fight will actually play out. The series isn't nearly so predictable and boring. I feel like a good handful of the official numbers are almost intended as a "don't fuss over power gaps so much" message. Edited by Kaboom, Apr 19 2014, 05:17 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Apr 19 2014, 04:52 PM Post #26 |
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@bro fist Goku using kaioken against vegeta isn't a good example. Kaioken increases abilities linearly so the actual gap is bigger than what the power levels show
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Apr 19 2014, 04:56 PM.
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